Sunday, 7th June 2009
Just last week, I blogged about an article that Rev Kong Hee of City Harvest Church had written about what he had considered "questionable teachings" and how fellow blogger Stan had written a series of responses to that article which he entitled "questionable" questionable teachings.
Well, since Rev Kong Hee is such a stickler for the law, I wonder whether he has seen the music video that his wife Ho Yeow Sun did for the song entitled "China Wine" and whether he should write a follow-up article entitled "questionable behaviour". After all, what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander, no? ;-)
Here's a letter that was published in the latest copy of 8 Days written in by someone who signed herself off as "Christian girl".
I was surprised to see a blonde Sun Ho on last week's cover. And I was terrified after reading your interview with her. I checked out her "China Wine" music video online and, gosh, is this someone you can call a famous yet respectable pastor's wife? I'm sorry but I think she's going in the exact opposite direction of where a church member should go. The clothes and the dance moves are inappropriate for someone of her status. I've got nothing against her musical ambitions -- but only if she wasn't a pastor's wife.
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Malcolm,
We been a Grace Revolution follower, I think the above post is lacking of Grace....
Let's stick to the confinement of theological discussion....
We are not call to pass judgement...
-- Petra
I remembered asking a cityharvester about this before. She explained to me that what Sun was doing was justifiable because she is in the media industry, and this is her job, and she asked me if I knew how many people she was reaching out to as a celebrity in Taiwan and China.
Hence I have reason to believe that the "justifiable reason" for the choice to participate in such a music video is that as a media personality, she has to do certain things or act in a certain way to be able to continue working in the industry.
Going by such reasoning and logic, where then do you draw the line? Is it then okay for one to also receive "benefits" from the agent/manager in exchange for something else?
I guess what I am saying is that at the end of the day, if we go by what is "okay" and what is "not okay", there will always be some form of subjectiveness and disagreement, you will never know where to draw the line.
But when you know your identity as the child of God, beloved, deeply FAVOURED, then you can rest in peace. Because it is not what you will do that will ensure whether you continue to have opportunities in the media industry. It is the favour of God that will determine that. And such confidence is the only way to propel one to BE and LIVE like a child of God, not act like one. We can have a million excuses as to why we should do something (like dance in china wine for example) but if we truly know how beloved we are in the eyes of our Father and that He will take care of us as long as we rest in Him, then we will safely do what we know will please Him because we know it is not how we please the world that will change things, but it is the favour that we have with Him that will change things.
Hi Mr Loh,
I have been an avid follower of your blog. I even received a copy of the D2RD book you gave out last year! I am from New Creation and am firmly established in the grace gospel, it has really impacted me (in the good way, of course!) in every aspect of my life. I now see and seek God in every area of my life :)
This email, however, is about your most recent post, the one about Pastor Kong Hee's wife, Sun Ho.
Don't misunderstand me, I completely agree with what you have written! I also believe that it is not a very good image for the body of Christ to have such a prominent member of the largest church in Singapore (and the Senior Pastor's wife at that!) to be a scantily clad woman, parading in a sexually suggestive manner in a music video that is screened to the masses. And yes, I do agree that this definitely fits the title of 'questionable behaviour'.
However, what I believe is that we, as believers of the grace gospel, should not retaliate tit-for-tat against our 'enemies' (I do not mean that entirely; they are, after all, our brothers and sisters in Christ). This, I think, is underhanded (no offence intended). It makes for good gossip fodder material, but we shouldn't criticize our critics in a manner that has no direct relation to what Ps Kong Hee has preached against us. We should extend grace to the people around us, and be the bigger man in this scenario. Let's just 'fight' them in such a way that others will not view us as the 'same as them'. I believe we should answer our critics, definitely, we should not just sit back and let others criticize us to the point that people are turned off by the gospel of grace. However, I believe we have to do this in a manner that is diplomatic and will cause the least embarassment for the parties involved.
I believe NCC is extending the first hand to show that we Christians (NCC and CHC specifically) are together in this, by singing a worship song entitled "The God I know" written by City Harvest last Sunday when Ps Brian Houston came to preach. It really touched me that the music ministry of NCC is willing to overlook these differences and sing an amazing song written by another brother in Christ, albeit one from a 'rival' church. After all, let's settle our differences here on earth first before we meet in heaven!
I hope this email has not caused any offence, which is definitely NOT my intention. I merely wish to express my thoughts, and I pray that you will see it from my point of view.
Your brother in grace,
Hi Petra and G
Thanks for your feedback.
I know where you are coming from, but my blog is meant to reflect my honest thoughts and feelings, warts and all, and I do not profess to be more gracious than the next believer.
And because I am * not* from NCC, members of CHC cannot accuse me of taking sides.
At the end of the day, Rev Kong has to do some self-reflection as to whether his legalistic theology has resulted in the rebellious behaviour of his wife. Somebody needs to have the courage to tell him that, and I hope someone points out my blog entry to him. Rather than shoot the messenger, he should consider the message.
As for being gracious, it does not mean "closing one's eye" all the time. While Jesus did not condemn the leper or the prostitute, He did not mince His words and told it like it is to the folks who were so insistent on keeping the laws of Moses.
Having said that, I really appreciate both of you taking the trouble to write to me. That's what an open forum like this is all about :-)
Blessings
Personally I think it;s disturbing ... many may be and has been stumbled ... 8-(
When Paul talks about food sacrificed to idols,I don't think he is referring to food only ...
1 Corinthians 8:9-13
But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.
For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols?
And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
But when you thus sin against the brethen, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
It's true, we can't stone cos none of us are without sin, but yet it is so obvious, that the devil is using such a lowdown way to make a mockery of the body of Christ, that as if God need the wife of the pastor & chairman of the biggest church in Singapore to behave such, to "sacrifice", in order to reach out to taiwan & China?
I do not think anyone of us are in anyway targeting another church. We are the body of Christ, Christ is the head, we are the body, we ought to unite and not fight. But if some members of the body do some things that are not beneficial to the body, then that member needs to be corrected. If the wives of NCC pastors or any other church decide to do a pussycat dolls in the name of outreach, what would you say then?
Shalom Shalom,
William
Hi Malcolm, when I watched the video I actually wanted to laugh. No offence but I find that it's ridiciously funny. I have tonnes of non-Christian friends who has a bad impression of CHC and constant make references to her.
Hi Malcolm,
I was very uncomfortable when I saw that video last year. I disagree with what she's done here, but I do not doubt whatsoever her good intentions or that of City Harvest church in engaging culture. I think CHC is doing a marvellous job in reaching out. I have a lot of disagreements with how far they go in being like the world, but I will not question their sincerity, nor will I say that I think they're 100% wrong and that my view is 100% right. Whether what she did was right is debatable. I'm very sure pastor Kong Hee and his wife have their very own sincere convictions. That doesn't mean they are right. But on the other hand, while I'm uncomfortable and feel it's wrong and I don't think the means justify the ends in this case, I'll agree to disagree with others who would argue otherwise because it's quite a grey area I think.
However, I have to state here I'm uncomfortable with NCC members implying (or seeming to imply) that she's doing so because perhaps she doesn't know her identity as a child of God (as if only NCC members know that) or she or her husband hasn't experienced grace, etc. I think we can just disagree without always saying that the reason the other side is like that is because they have not experienced grace or such.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are doing so sincerely and after having prayed much about it. Not because they haven't experienced grace like us pro-NCC members or that a legalistic theology leads them to such behaviour! While that may be so, I seriously doubt it.
I think Pastor Kong and the wife need our prayers. For the wife to be in such an industry is not easy and there will be a lot of temptations, and that's what I fear (if I may use that word) most for them.
G, what you said is truly awesome. This is truly showing grace and I'm glad to see NCC take that step. As a church that emphasizes so much on grace and God's grace to us, the burden is upon us to model that grace to others so that those who disagree with NCC will truly see the fruits of a theology focused on grace.
Hi Stillhaventfound
I hope you have discovered that He found you rather then you found or still finding ...
anyway, to put in your statement "NCC members" in 2nd para smiply put a big "?" in all your comments! Since when do 2 or 3 "online" NCC members (you could not even verify if they are NCC members!) represent the views of NCC & her 20,000+ members????
You state in 3rd para that you gave them the benefit of doubt since they (Rev Kong & MRS) "after having prayed much about it", you mean they (Rev Kong & MRS) told you about their much prayers about the issue??? and GOD ordained it!!!!
That's the reason why many sincere missionaries suffered, and then they cried out "Why?" to God, but in the first place, out of their zest and sincerity, were they GOD-sent or self-sent!!!!!
Certainly we will pray for them, pray for the prodigal son (daughter) to come home! It's temptation alright, but what did God said? Flee from sexual immoralities! The Lord's prayer -"lead us not into temptation .."
To put the arguement to rest, let's imagine you are the father who has a lovely daughter. Would you allow her to venture into "dangerous" territory in the name of expansion??? If you believe it can be justified, I fear for your sons & daughters, if any, and if the act can be justified, then we just made a mockery of our heavenly Father, in believing that He would allow His children, sons of light, purchased and redeemed by the blood of His precious beloved Son on the cross, to be "used" in such manner!
Think about it! Back your comments in the context of the bible, God's word and authority! Not hear-say or you think, bro, if I may call you.
Shalom Shalom
William
See what she wrote about what she's doing on her facebook profile
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/note.php?note_id=87513091247&ref=mf
I would like to comment on the above but certain things are better left unsaid in the public domainc cos they are not edifying. I have confronted the leadership of CHC on certain questionable behaviour of Sun when she first started as a pop artiste in Hollywood a few years ago.
If you want to know what the issue was about, you may email me at llwt72@gmail.com I prefer to share in private if you are interested to find out how they responded to my concern about what I brought up a few years back. I certainly agree that they have lost focus and they really need our prayers!
Hi William,
My not having found is explained here in my blog. It's not about whether I've found Jesus or not! :) And yes, you're right, it's Christ who found us.
Regarding NCC members, of course I'm not speaking to all. I attend NCC myself. I'm talking about those who do so. And if it's just 2-3 in the blogsphere doing so, then I'm talking about them and not all members. And yes, they may not be "members", but to me there's not really much difference between a member and a pro-NCC Christian. But yes, you are right, technically, I should not have said NCC members. If fact, I'm not even sure if NCC has formal membership coz I'm not "formally" a member - I don't really believe in formal membership as many churches do anyway coz universal membership in the body of Christ is more important than membership to any local church.
William, I don't know Rev. Kong Hee and his wife. I'm saying I would give them the benefit of the doubt. I believe we ought to do so in this situation. I think we are called to think the best of other people in such situations. That doesn't mean we have to agree with everything they do. I don't. But I think the gracious thing to do isn't to attack them. Disagree with them by all means. But I'm against attacking them the way some are doing so, just as I'm against people attacking Pastor Prince the way many have done.
People may disagree with me. That's fine. I tend to think in this case, things are more complex than straight forward. To me, it's a grey area. That's why I am not so strong in my views. And even if I hold a strong belief that what she's doing is sin, I would be careful what I say.
But whatever it is, I've learned from many others (including Pastor Prince) not to be judgemental and not to focus on the sin committed but to focus on the grace of God. I'm sure Pastor Prince and many other pastors in Singapore are not ignorant of the controversy here. I believe it was even in the newspapers a while back. But did they speak up? I don't think Pastor Prince or many other pastors have done so. I don't think they would agree with what is happening (I may be wrong), but on the other hand, they didn't see the need to make a big issue out of it and focus on condemning the sin of others. That's not what a message focused on grace is about. At least, not to me. Jesus' harshest rebukes were not for people who committed the grave sins like sexual sins or whatever. His harshest rebukes were reserved for those who condemned others and made others feel condemned.
Hi "founded" 8-)
Regarding church membership, well, my personal believe is to submit to an authority ordained by God, to recognise the leadership as my spiritual father, to give them the authority to speak into my life, and more.
Concerning Rev Kong & MRS, like I have mentioned, we condemn not cos none of us are without sin. However I agree with Bro Mal that we cannot just keep quiet, cos they are tendering to a huge flock, part of the church, part of the body of Christ. I do not support those who condemn, or judge, but our concerns ought to be made known to CHC, directly or indirectly.
The apostle Paul talks about how one should take heed how he/she builds on the foundation that he has laid. Read about it in 1 Corinthians 3.
Anyway, I visited her blog using the link given by one reader, and her blog says it all ... she sounds like the prodigal son asking his father for the share of his inheritance ... like I said, pray for the returns of the prodigal son / daughter, just like we were once prayed for by others to return to the Father.
God bless 8-)
Shalom Shalom,
William
This is what Lord told me in my meditation after watching Sun Ho video:
Lord: 'Glory Glory! Abba is glad that you see Sun Ho is not in the flow of Jesus! Yes, tempted by devil and she fall into it.
Abba is not flowing strongly in City Harvest. They preach their own sermon. They did not get it from me. The husband has gone into pride. I am not blessing them. Glory Glory!'
Wow Stephanie!
Sorry, but this is quite ridiculous. Stating that what Sun Ho did is questionable is one thing. But going on and saying that God told you all that is another thing altogether.
I think we have to be really careful before we start accusing CHC, Kong Hee and Sun like that. God is doing a wonderful work in City Harvest. He's been blessing tons of lives through the Church and the ministry of the couple. That doesn't mean we have to agree with everything they are doing or preach. I don't. But saying what you've said is taking things a bit too far.
I think we need to be much more humble when we hear God's voice, especially when using God's name to accuse other churches.
Sorry, but this totally goes against everything I've learned in New Creation. I disagree with some very important things in City Harvest but I would never ever say such things about them. And I believe Pastor Prince would never say such things too.
Stephanie
Very unwise to write such sensitive comments on public domain and that's why I refrain from doing so in such blogs. Even if one really receives the Word from God about them, keep it to yourself and amongst friends you know. Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will know what they are doing that are not biblical at all.
I have already confronted them privately once and they seemed indifferent. I don't think I wanna waste time on them except to pray for God's mercies on their life.
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