A 4th-Generation Methodist's Response - Part 5 of 5

Tuesday, 22nd July 2008

Part V of V

continued from Part 4

[3] This is what you wrote about Healing

What I had reservations about: Whilst the book speaks of Bible passages where physical healing is expected and takes place, it says nothing about the passages that accept (without surprise or anguish) that miraculous physical healing did not take place e.g. 2 Tim 4:20; Philippians 2:25-27; 1 Tim 5:23; Gal 4:13-14. Incidentally, Galatians 4:13-14 tells us explicitly that Paul did have a bodily sickness which resulted in the greater good of the Gospel being preached contra Prince’s statement that “Paul did not suffer any sickness or disease” (p. 71). The problem is not so much with what Prince affirms viz. that healing is a blessing from a God who is full of grace; the problem is with what he omits to affirm viz. that physical illness without healing on earth can also fall within the gracious providence of God. The Bible teaches us both to pray for physical healing and to be prepared to endure illness with patient endurance. The victorious Christian life is one that remains faithful to God in both times of abundance and poverty, in sickness or in health, for richer or for poorer (cf. Philippians 4:12-13). I do not know the ministry of Prince well enough to be sure of what he really thinks about healing on earth. Perhaps if you listen long enough to his sermons, you may be able to make a fairer assessment. Does he preach to help Christians cope with the onslaught of poverty and illness, or does he speak only of removing sickness and suffering by effortless faith? We need both messages, because that is the balance we find in Scripture.


This is probably a topic that is closest to my heart because of my son's condition. Previously, we would accept it as God's will for him, as well as for us. Well-meaning Christians would tell us that this is so that we will be kept humble or so that God can teach us lessons. But does God really operate that way? If an earthly mother sees her daughter playing in the kitchen, does she take the girl's hand, switch on the stove and put it into the fire, so that her daughter will be taught a lesson not to step into the kitchen? If an earthly father sees his son playing by the road, does he ask the boy to lie down, run his car over his legs, so that his son will be taught a lesson about the dangers of being near the road? Yet, we picture our Heavenly Father as giving us diseases and sicknesses so as to keep us humble?

There are yet some other people that say that sicknesses and diseases are punishment and retribution for some wrongdoing. If that's the case, then perhaps Jesus should have told the parable of the Prodigal Son this way...

When the son came back to the house, the father said to him, "How dare you come back here? Haven't you caused me enough shame and suffering already? What has happened to you is what you deserved. Now, get out of my sight before I stone you to death for dishonouring me. Anyway, my firstborn is still with me, so you can go and die for all I care."

Thanks so much for pointing out passages in Scripture that showed that miraculous healing did not take place. However, I can also show you even more passages in Scripture where they did.

The trouble with holding on to the doctrine that sometimes God heals and sometimes He doesn't, or sometimes God blesses us and sometimes He doesn't, makes it difficult for us to know how to pray or what to ask for. Imagine if an earthly father were to behave like that. One day, when he is in a good mood, he will bring his kids out for a good meal. The next day, when he gets up on the wrong side of bed, he will beat up his kids just for the fun of it. Is our God really like that?

At the end of the day, God gives each of us free will and free choice -- He will not force His blessings upon us if we feel ill-at-ease about accepting them. As for me and my household, we choose to believe that by the stripes of Jesus, my son is healed. When the Roman soldiers whipped Jesus with the cat-o-nine-tails and His flesh was being ripped apart, He could have stayed down. Yet He chose to get up time and time again, so as to ensure that every single disease and illness in the world would be taken upon His own body.

And it is already happening, praise God! We read in the newspapers that people are willing to pay even up to S$300,000 for a kidney transplant, and that was the new lease of life that my son was given on 10 April 2008, at a fraction of that price, and after nearly eight years on dialysis. We continue to claim that all God's promises are yes and in Him amen to the glory of God through us.

As a fellow Methodist, I understand perfectly the reservations you have about some of the contents of the book. But unless grace is radically preached, there can be no radical transformation. My prayer is that as you study the Scriptures more and more, God's Holy Spirit will also begin to reveal to you more about what being the righteousness of God means to the believer, and what we are entitled to claim as beneficiaries of the New Covenant. Let us not settle for anything but the best, because the best is yet to be!

Yours-in-Christ

Malcolm Loh
4th Generation Methodist
Baptismal Roll of Paya Lebar Methodist Church (Dec 1970 – Dec 1982)
Preparatory Roll of Paya Lebar Methodist Church (Jan 1983 – Nov 1986)
Membership Roll of Paya Lebar Methodist Church (Dec 1986 – Jul 2008)
On Sabbatical Leave (Aug 2008 till further notice)
LCEC Elective Steward (Sep 1991 – Aug 1994)
Honorary Treasurer (Sep 2006 - Aug 2007)
Cell Leader (Jan 2007 – Aug 2007)

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Shalom Malcolm,

I've been a silent reader, a partaker of God's amazing grace in your life for some time but having
read your detailed responses to the Methodist's Review of 'Destined to Reign', I have the urge to shout Hallelujah at the top of my lungs!

Thank you for faithfully testifying His goodness in your life and see you around at the Rock soon!

One of His Sheep,
Sarah

Malcolm Loh said...

Hi Sarah

All praise and glory goes to Jesus!

I am so looking forward to worshipping among the 20,000 :-)

Mango Chin said...

Dear Mal:

In your closing remark, I quote "...God's Holy Spirit will also begin to reveal to you more about what being the righteousness of God means to the believer". My comment is what should be our RESPONSE to being made righteousness by Christ's work on the cross ? Some of the popular responses are...The TEN commandments or the Great Commandments are not for me to keep. I do not need to feel bad about sinning (we have infinite grace and forgiveness to draw from). The right response is we should train ourselves by changing our old habits of lust, anger, malice, contempt. Being made righteous only gives us the power to change. The onus of training belongs to us. God's grace cannot train on our behalf. As we begin to change our old habits, God’s Kingdom of abundant life become real in our earthly life. Sadly, the training of changing old habits has been viewed as law-based, dead, old covenant…etc

Anonymous said...

Hi Malcolm,

Thank you for taking the time to response to Rev. Dr. Gordon Wong's comments on Destined to Reign.

Indeed you have shown much courage in doing so! I appreciate what you have written and I know it came from your heart felt conviction.

I almost broke down in tears while reading through your response.Surely the grace of our Lord has so consumed you that you have made a radical shift to unlearn what you have been taught in the past.

Your response has certainly cleared the air and may the Holy Spirit unveil the eyes of many of the people who read it.

Once again, I offer to you my sincere thanks and I salute you in the Name of our Lord! Amen!!!

Malcolm Loh said...

Hi mango

You are right about old habits being changed, but it should be according to God's timing, not ours. AFter all, He that began a good work in us would surely bring it to completion.

When Jesus sat to eat with the publicans and sinners, what drew them to Him was His non-judgemental nature. The Pharisees were the ones who looked on disapprovingly with self-righteousness indignation.

I'm sure we do not want to be accused of being the modern-day Pharisees now, do we :-)

Malcolm Loh said...

Hi Joo

My dad tells me that Rev Dr Gordon Wong is actually a New Testament expert and a lecturer of New Testament Studies at Trinity Theological College.

So you can imagine that it was with much "fear and trembling" that I wrote him the response.

Nonetheless, the Holy Spirit so convicted me that the words just flowed and the 6,000 words was composed in a matter of four hours.

The grace gospel has so impacted my life that I cannot but proclaim what Jesus has done in my life.

I suppose the fundamental difference was that while Dr Wong was reviewing the book as a third person using his head, my response to him is one written as a first person using my heart :-)

A fellow brother sent me an sms, telling me that the one with the arguments cannot win against the one with the experience. When one has already experienced the goodness of His grace, no theological argument against it can stand...

Unknown said...

Hi Mal

Chanced upon your blog many weeks back and has been reading and commented (can help it!) since.

I am reading Destined to Reign the second time. The first time was very quickly, cos too excited, just hunger to read on, just like must finish listen to sermon then get out of car ... sama sama. .. this time I am taking my time slowly digesting .... so much to uncover, ... read a few paragraphs and meditate on it, the next day do the same, slowly slowly feed ...

After reading your Part I to V, and the comments, I was brought back to the verse Pastor Prince quoted in the first chapter of Destined to Reign:

"... much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." Romans 5:17

So I do not understand why Bro Mango wrote, "Being made righteous only gives us the power to change. The onus of training belongs to us. God's grace cannot train on our behalf. As we begin to change our old habits... ".

God's grace do not train me, God's abundance grace (the abundance of Jesus) touches me, and thus transforming me. I am sure you have been touched by someone in your life, and you end up telling yourself, that you are willing to do something for that person ... not because that person demanded you to "train" since he / she has extended grace to you, but you are touched that though he / she did not demand yet you are willing to do something in return ...

I am not sure what I have written is a good example, but I certainly disagree on the "As we change ...", "the onus is on us ...", "God's grace cannot train us ..." ... It's back to "work" ... "I & We" ... and to comment that "God's grace cannot train ... " seems to me that I must help God to help myself, cos His grace (Jesus) is deem not enough to transform me that I must add in my training to graduate from bad habits!???

We receive the abundance of grace (Jesus) and of the gift of righteousness .... righteousness is a gift .... not by work, no need to train one ... go define righteousness and one will understand .... and we reign in life through Jesus Christ ... and if we reign, sin shall not have dominion over us ... so the thinking of believers under grace sinning like nobody's business is ridiculous!

Stop police-ing fellow brothers & sisters, telling them things like, "oh got to be careful of this grace thing, too much of it will destroy you, got to balance .... as for me, I am at a different level, so I am able to handle more grace .... meanwhle I will guide you, how to train yourself to kick all the bad habits ... first, you must stop smoking immediately, next, go trim your hair and dye it back to black color, next, don't wear so short skirt and cause me, oh no, I mean other brothers to stumble .... "

I am learning to accept youths who goes, "yo yo yo ..." and raps, cos this is the generation ... I am in no way (just because I am proper and trim) holier than they are on my own, but as fellow brothers & sisters we are all righteous in Christ ... think it's difficult for you, bro Mango to accept that these youths with their dressings and swaying, once saved, are as righteous as Billy Graham, or even Jesus Himself!

By the way, do you know who exhausted Jesus, to the extent that He needed His disciples to go get food for Him while He rested at the well? It is the stiffed necked perverse unbelieving generation! But when one (the woman at the well) believed Jesus was rejuvenated!

Apologies for the messy comments, cos it's 3AM, and I haven't got much sleep lately. Got to send son to school & then to work still 8-)

Shalom Shalom
William

Mango Chin said...

Dear William:

Training here means “hearing and doing God's word”. The Holy Spirit cannot obey God's word on our behalf when our old habits come knocking at the door. We know the power of sin is broken by Jesus work on the cross, but why do we still sin either habitually or occasionally ? This is because we simply reign, reign and reign in grace without making direct efforts in changing our bad habits, or thinking the time to change is to wait upon God’s timing. The time to do God’s word is NOW, and it takes efforts in practising what Jesus teaches (His word). The grace of Jesus is everything but doing God’s word on our behalf. When Christians hear God's word and doing it (again, doing takes effort, not ‘reigning’ in grace), then they’re the wise builders who build house on the Rock.

Unknown said...

Bro Mango

So what's hearing & doing God's word? Perhaps you can help / train us by giving us a verse or two from the bible, especially from the New Testaments, and better still quote from Paul's letters.

Perhaps you should have told God that Paul failed to hear Him clearly, the Romans 5:17 should be written as:

.... much more those who receive abundance of TRAINING and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

& warn God that otherwise too many will reign only in grace and do not wish to hear & do His word!

You wrote:

"When Christians hear God's word and doing it ..."

I thought I heard God told me Romans 5:17 that I who receives the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Jesus also told me to abide in Him, that as He is, so am I, and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me ... so am I not being obedient to the word of God? that I will reign in life through Him and not as you have judged that many Christians who received grace will reign in life in sins!

Why use words like "training" or "to hear & do God's word", when you could have been more straight forward by using the Ten Commandments, that believers should remember the Laws of Moses! lest they continue to sin under the cover of gace!

We are already on Mount Zion, God already "shifted", yet many are still camping on Mount Sinai!

It's no wonder Jesus, while on earth, was exhausted by the stiffed necked perverse unbelief generation!

William

Mango Chin said...

In Matt 5:17-20:

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Is the Law Good ? Jesus says our righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, some people interpret that the Law kills, it is bad and dead. The Pharisees knew the Law and even kept the Law very well, why did their righteousness has no value, does it mean the Law is useless also ? The Law is not the source of righteousness, the Law is the course of righteousness. Pharisees kept the Law for the sake of keeping the Law, i.e. by focusing on outward actions, making sure the Law is not broken. But internally, they're still a brood of vipers. Similarly, if we strife to do good without first becoming the kind of person that our deeds naturally enable us to keep the Law, then our righteousness can not surpass that of Pharisees. To produce apples, we need to become an apple tree. Orange or pear trees can not bear apples. There is a saying " You can give without love, but you can not love without giving".

The secret of becoming an apple tree is Agape Love. Pharisees do not have Agape love because they reject Christ. We put our faith in Jesus, and His agape love is in us. This love is the central power to transform us in becoming the kind of person mentioned above. Rather than focusing on external actions, we work on the internal vices by the agape power. Eg. Do not murder (ourward action) vs do not breed anger (internal vice), do not commit adultery vs do not cultivate lust, do not use abusive words vs do not harbour contempt. We need to constantly recharge the agape love by letting our mind permeate with God's goodness and faithfulness through studying and meditating of scripture, prayer. Once we're charged up like Buzz Light Year, we begin to work on internal vices mentioned earlier. Then it will become easy to keep the Law, even the tough one - Love Thy Enemy.

In conclusion, does the Law kill ? It kills if we keep the law by keeping the law. The law tells us What is Good. Agape Love allows us to BECOME good, and whatever we do (i.e. training)is naturally DOING good.

Malcolm Loh said...

Hi Mango

I'm glad you quoted Matt 5:17-20 because it is going to be the subject matter in an upcoming blog entry. Do look out for it :-)

As The Deer said...

Some thoughts after reading Mango's comments...

We are the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus so our righteousness will always exceed those of the Pharisees.

It is not what we did or continue to do that made us righteous. It simply rests on Christ's perfect work on the cross, and our receiving this gift that has redeemed us.

If we continue to believe that it is what we do that sets us apart, we continue to rely on self-righteousness like the Pharisees.
Then, Christ died for nothing.

There is no way for anyone to keep the law – even as Christians – that is why He had to do it ALL for us.

Our freedom was no cheap gift – it was paid blood for blood, stripe for stripe.

He paid for every broken law because He knew we could not uphold any of them.

I think it is foolhardy for Christians to think that just because they have His righteousness, they can keep the 10 commandments if they train hard enough. The moment we feel angry with someone we sin. We don't even have to act on it to do wrong. Just the thought of it is enough to condemn us.

The point is that we are not asked to train to keep the 10 commandments once we receive His grace, but to continue to abide in Him and to depend completely on Him, not our efforts... That every decision we make, we don’t look at the Ten Commandments to decide whether we should do it or not... we remember His open arms and open heart on the cross, and choose to honour that unconditional love for us and to choose to remain free because He has set us free from the sins that once bound us to wrong living.

The Law is not bad or useless. It is the epitome of justice that we cannot fulfil. The establishment of the law also established sin. The moment a rule is made, it is open to be broken. That is why we say that the law can kill.

It is important for us to know that the Law was set in motion not for us to keep, but for Him to save us from it - to further reveal the all encompassing glory of His grace and its power in our lives; to show us that we cannot if we have not Christ.

Because it is acknowledging that because we can't do it on our own, that we can in Him - not by our own might, own efforts but by His Spirit. It is complete dependence on Him in every area of our life that allows us to live right.

Our righteousness is not established on keeping the 10 commandments anymore. It is not established on the stones they were written on.

Our righteousness and right living is established on the new commandment written on The Rock of Ages – our firm foundation, our LORD Jesus Christ – to base our life’s decision on His love for us so that we can sin no more.

It is based on His promises that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things, that as new creations in Him, we have the mind of Christ... that because His new commandment is engraved on our hearts, it will lead us to do the right things. It is the reminder that we are free, so we do not have to allow ourselves to be imprisoned by fear and by the lies of the enemy or by our old character traits.

Our righteousness depends not on our doing but on our receiving.

Our righteousness is not about our independence but dependence.

It is constantly receiving His grace, mercy and love that helps us to walk in His light... it is surrendering to His will totally so as to rest secure in Him, and not merely training our will so that we become a better person according to a set of moral standards.

(Sorry for repetition of points and for being so longwinded lol)

As The Deer said...

Just like to add that it is interesting to note that the ten commandments were issued in the remote and barren Sinai desert.

Desert is a biblical symbol of desolation and temptation. There is no living water in the desert... just dust, and dust represents futility. Sinai means "teeth" or "devouring power".

The ten commandments were given in such a setting.

The new commandment Jesus gave to us was given on the day of the Passover or day of the Unleavened Bread - where the Passover Lamb was to be sacrificed. It was also the evening of the symbolic last supper.

The new commandment was given after the Son of God had shown an example of humility and servitude (washing of feet symbolises Christ's atoning sacrifice, self-surrender - versus devouring power of Sinai), after He had broken the bread and offered the wine ( symbolical of His redemptive sacrifice on the Cross that we remember today through partaking of the holy communion).

I end with this reminder -

"If people tell you, 'The Christ is in the desert,' don't go there."
Matthew 24:26

Also with regards to the 10 commandments (Law) and the new commandment in Christ (Grace) -

"God called this a new agreement, so He has made the first agreement old (obsolete). And anything that is old (obsolete) and worn is ready to disappear."
- Heb 8:13

Let him who hath eyes, see.

Anonymous said...

Dear Bro. Malcom,

Thank you for taking the time to response to the theologian's review of Pastor's book.

Your encounter with Pastor's ministry brought back many beautiful memories about my own experiences as well.

I was once blind but now I see...

Praise the Lord and I thank God for Pastor Prince. My life has never been the same.

God Bless
Simon

Anonymous said...

Hi Malcolm,

I chanced upon your blog and my,what mind blowing sharing you have there! :D

I enjoy reading your blog, it lifts me up. Thank you for being such a blessing!

DaddyGod bless and multiply and prosper all you set your hands on!

-nik

Anonymous said...

Hi malcolm,

My husband and I are so encouraged by your testimony.
We chanced upon your blog & we are so encouraged and amazed at your testimony!
Do spread this blog around~cos I believe God will bless you more to bless many more!

cheers!
T&Y

Melvin Emmanuel said...

I used to speak against the grace message until I have experienced grace myself.

Being a christian man seems harder compared to men belonging to other faiths. When it comes to common man's problem such as lust do we hammer them with the Law? In hopes he will changed for the better?

Yes I agree discipline is necessary however during the course of disciplining and correction he must be pointed to the throne of grace not hammering him with the laws.

I was dealing with personal issues for the past few months and I felt lousy as I was unable to keep up with God's Holy Standards as I was at the bottomless pit flashbacks memories of Pastor Prince's teachings on grace came to my mind.

I saw the big picture and was totally convinced, Grace is the only way that will aid us in achieving God's Holy Standards as prescribed in 1 John 1-19

Powered By Blogger